TC Problem

Plus overheads, insurance etc. Still sounds like a huge amount. Why not present them with those figures and ask just how fair they think that is? £16K? Make that £60K!!!

[unlikelyheroine]

Trainees have to be realistic about their role within firms. A lot of the work a trainee does will be either written off, or need to be done again by someone else, or set to one side. That is not to say that trainees (particularly in smaller firms) do not contribute or progress things. But firstly, trainees often cannot operate at the level of a qualified lawyer (of course there are exceptions), and secondly, it is not the business model of law firms in the UK to bill their clients exactly what is recorded on the clock. Many firms operate fixed fees, discounts, fee caps, etc; and a bill will always be reviewed by a partner before it goes anywhere. If the bill is higher than the partner wants it to be, guess whose time is likely to get written off without much further investigation?

So you cannot as a trainee say: I bill xx per hour and have done 8 hours today, therefore I have earned the firm y amount. It doesn't mean anything. As an assistant your time is also quite possibly written off or discounted too, but really with trainees a lot of it will get taken off the file, even if what you did really did help progress matters. Some clients are sensitive about these things and don't want to pay for someone else to learn (as they see it), etc.

It is one of the reasons trainees do not have billable hour targets. I've never heard of a firm with an official billable hours target for trainees, although they may aim to keep their trainees busy for x hours per day.

[robin]

Originally Posted by unlikelyheroine

it is not the business model of law firms in the UK to bill their clients exactly what is recorded on the clock.

True - normally its about double what is recorded on the clock...

[unlikelyheroine]

Tut tut!

[steph]

Someone in a law firm told me that trainees cost the firm so much because aside from all the stuff about their work needing checking, time written off etc, if you think of all the time a partner or whoever spends explaining things to the trainee, redoing things they've done wrong, etc, it's all time they could have been billing elsewhere and can't really bill to the client.

[robin]

Well they've got to pay for that fourth house somehow

[robin]

Originally Posted by steph

Someone in a law firm told me that trainees cost the firm so much because aside from all the stuff about their work needing checking, time written off etc, if you think of all the time a partner or whoever spends explaining things to the trainee, redoing things they've done wrong, etc, it's all time they could have been billing elsewhere and can't really bill to the client.

From experience they do bill it.

The point is that if it is so expensive to hire trainees then why bother? Why not just hire NQ's? You could even afford to pay them more as the firm isn't wasting money training people.

[ashleigh]

Originally Posted by unlikelyheroine

A lot of the work a trainee does will be either written off, or need to be done again by someone else, or set to one side. That is not to say that trainees (particularly in smaller firms) do not contribute or progress things.

I would agree with that in the context of a larger firm, but in terms of my firm, which is now very small, I am literally the only person dealing with this. If I am off, no work gets done. If something is wrong, I redo it. The bill is either a fixed fee, or calculated on the time I have spent on it at £100 per hour.

If I were to leave the firm tomorrow (hypothetically) then there would be nobody else who could take over the 80 odd files I manage, at the level I have managed them, unless the senior partner took this on himself. The problem there is that the senior partner is not able to do this as he has a lot of other sideline work and another firm (hence why I have minimal supervision). So I think I could realistically say that I don't just contribute to the progess of things in this role...I am the progress of things....

Originally Posted by unlikelyheroine

But firstly, trainees often cannot operate at the level of a qualified lawyer (of course there are exceptions), and secondly, it is not the business model of law firms in the UK to bill their clients exactly what is recorded on the clock. Many firms operate fixed fees, discounts, fee caps, etc; and a bill will always be reviewed by a partner before it goes anywhere. If the bill is higher than the partner wants it to be, guess whose time is likely to get written off without much further investigation?

Again I can see what you're saying here, however 9 times out of 10 the bill is not reviewed by the partner at this firm. Thats fair enough in terms of fixed fees, but otherwise I am often told to use my discretion. I often ask the partner to check my bills but not once has it ever been lowered. If anything he will put it up but mostly it is left as is.

Originally Posted by unlikelyheroine

So you cannot as a trainee say: I bill xx per hour and have done 8 hours today, therefore I have earned the firm y amount. It doesn't mean anything. As an assistant your time is also quite possibly written off or discounted too, but really with trainees a lot of it will get taken off the file, even if what you did really did help progress matters.

I would say that the calculations I made earlier, apart from taking into account overheads and insurance, are fairly accurate which is why I am so concerned about the level of pay etc.

Obviously what you have said will apply to the larger firms but in this case I really do think I am making a hell of a profit for the firm and should be paid accordingly.

[unlikelyheroine]

ashleigh, I see what you're saying, but you also have to consider the market and what it would take to replace you. If your firm could get someone in to do the job you're doing for £16k (I know that person would need to pick up the files etc and would be likely not to do as good a job as you, who have been managing them) then they are unlikely to pay you more. And I expect that the firm probably could find someone to do the job for the same money.