TC Problem

[ashleigh]

Hi

I have just been discussing the finer points of my tc offer from my current employer with my boss and they have agreed to pay my LPC fees over the two years that I am doing the LPC and while i do the TC. The problem is that he has suggested that there may be some sort of clawback clause entered into my contract so that after I qualify i cannot leave for x amount of years or I will have to pay back (depending when i leave if i leave) all or some of my LPC fees (£9,000).

I didn't think it was usual to do this in tc's where the company is paying your LPC fees. Has anyone else experienced this?

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how i can object to this without making it sound like im going to leave as soon as qualified (which i don't intend to do but i also don't want to be tied in for x amount of years its a small firm)?

[subclause7]

I would just accept it. However, ask that it be drafted so that you do not have to pay anything back if
a) You do not qualify there; or if
b) You are made redundant/sacked etc etc; or
c) You are leaving the law and not going to another law firm

So basically you only pay if you leave of your own accord.

There's no point in rocking the boat early on. Firms spend a lot of money on trainees (i.e. lpc fees, psc fees, other training, salary, time written off) which they only really recover once the trainee is qualified and bringing in fees.

Some firms do have it as a policy (there was a RollonFriday story about it last year) unfortunatly. It's cheeky but firms are there to make a profit, even from their own staff!

Some firms do this, but usually not the larger ones. Most firms would probably expect you to repay LPC fees if you left within 2 years (i.e. didn't complete the training contract), but it really depends on how long they are trying to tie you in for.

You could suggest that if they want to tie you in, you want a loyalty incentive. If you're doing the LPC part time whilst working there, then doing the TC after the LPC is finished, you would be tied in for longer than the standard 2 yr TC duration anyway.

One solution would be to negotiate the amount you would have to repay, eg 1/2 of LPC fees if you leave within a year, 1/4 after 2 years, nothing after 3. Be creative! If you've already been there a while, then that demonstrates your commitment - it certainly doesn't show much trust or faith in you if they want to bind you long term.

[ashleigh]

I've been here 9 months already and was offered the training contract after 3-4 months. I am due to start the TC in Sep 2007 and I will apply for Time to count to reduce the TC to 18 months.

The LPC in aug 2007 (part-time weekend). I would be tied in here under that arrangement until September 2009 (when, assuming all goes well, I would be admitted to the Roll).

I am currently managing a caseload of about 50-60 private client files with minimal supervision and the rate charged for my time at present is £100...this will probably go up when i am actually doing to the TC and am a "Trainee Solicitor" to about £120ish.

The other thing is that pay is to be reviewed in May and i currently earn £16k. My boss said that him paying for my lpc will obviously impact the amount he can offer me in terms of salary (which is understandable).

My concern is that if my salary is not likely to increase much (if at all) during the next two and a bit years as a result of my LPC fees being paid by the firm, then it seems like a double penalty to claw it back? Or is that just me being naive?

Really appreciate your opinions and experiences

[subclause7]

One way around is to offer to pay the LPC by yourself via a professional student loan which will spread the cost and thus your firm can pay you more and you aren't tied down by them.

[ashleigh]

Problem is i've already applied for one to help me to consolidate my existing student debts and cover my travel expenses for getting to Guildford from Brighton once a month...That's £10k in itself

Feel so stuck at the moment just don't know what to do.

Part of the reason i don't want to be tied to this firm is although the training principal is great and i feel very lucky to have someone so patient and keen to train me, there are one or two other managers (one of which i get the impression is very opposed to paying for my training) and the office politics at this place are a bit full on. I know that shouldn't get in the way of my training but it does make me question whether i would be able to stick it out for sooooo long. There are only about 8-10 people working at the firm (and that includes the boss and two other managers) and its really hard not to be directly affected by the mental things that go on.

I totally agree about the double penalty. Why not ask how much you would be paid if you weren't getting the LPC paid for - it might be worth paying the LPC yourself if the pay rise is good enough.

What do you bill per month? It could be they would still be making a profit out of you, paying you less, and locking you into an agreement that binds the firm. If that's the case, that definitely seems unreasonable.

[SweetLola]

You say they are only tying you in till quaification ...that does not seem so bad

and you should be glad they are offering to pay your fees at all ...some of us had to get loans and struggle to pay them. and it seems fair because it is such a small firm ... why should you use them for their £9k and then hop off ????

if you are on 18-20k as a trainee and then get £9k fees paid ...its not so horrible . Find out what is on offer b4 u start whining.

Subclause7 an absurd silly idea .... how is she better off getting a loan ???? no1 there is no guarnatee that her salary raise with or without LPC fee would be up to £4500 PA (so she is proabaly better off letting them pay her fees and still enjoying a small raise) ...2ndly repaying the firm is likely to be cheaper than repaying a loan ..as they probably wont charge interest as such

[steph]

to be honest, a lot of my friends who are doing training contracts at the moment have that clause in their contracts. as people have said above, it costs so much to train a trainee that they want some assurance you will stick about afterwards so they can make some £££s.

[ashleigh]

Originally Posted by SweetLola

You say they are only tying you in till quaification ...that does not seem so bad

They aren't only tying me in till qualification...they want to tie me in for 2-3 years after which seems to me a bit on a double penalty as they have also suggested that if they will pay my fees my salary will be impacted and not raised during.

Originally Posted by SweetLola

if you are on 18-20k as a trainee and then get £9k fees paid ...its not so horrible . Find out what is on offer b4 u start whining.

I am only on £16k and it is not set to increase from the impression I have been given.

Originally Posted by SweetLola

and you should be glad they are offering to pay your fees at all ...some of us had to get loans and struggle to pay them. and it seems fair because it is such a small firm ... why should you use them for their £9k and then hop off ????

I am of course very grateful that they have offered to pay my fees and I know that others are not so lucky. I have no intention of simply hopping off once I have qualified, but at the same time I do not want to be penalised in terms of pay and a tie in. Surely this is reasonable. I appreciate that I can't expect to simply use them to pay my fees, but does that justify them using me? I need to look after my interests too.


Thanks for the comments, however its not really just about the claw back and the lack of salary raise that is concerning me. There are absurd "office politics" and I am also concerned for the future financial stability of the firm. To top this off in the 9 months I have been there 7 people have left as a result and the firm has a huge staff turnover in general.

I guess it is just a gut feeling I have that I should be careful here and make sure I am not being used.

I understand that some people may think I should simply be grateful to have a training contract and not "whine" but to be honest its the next 5 years of my life and I need to be certain that I consider my best interests and negotiate the fairest arrangement for myself and the firm.